AViD 2.5 Lift Kit w/ ATP 2" Lift Springs

Discussion in 'Renegade Modified Tech' started by Dewatto, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Going to start a thread to log experiences with this setup and help inform others thinking of going for one of the current max lift options.

    1) Finding someone to install...
    I think if the shop realized how complex this was and that the instructions assume a lot of specific knowledge around lifting Renegades, they may have rethought their original estimate. Most lifts are pretty easy, so it is an easy way for the shop to make some money. Charge 6-8 hours of labor, have their expert crew knock it out in 4. This one however, took them around 16-18 man hours (had 4 people working through it at times)

    2) AViD instructions
    They provide the 2.0 instructions. The 2.5 is similar, but some challenges arise with the extra .5 inches that should be documented
    - 2.0 instructions say the driveline skid plate for the Trailhawk will touch the bracket, but still remount. The studs come down from the body, only are so long. With the extra .5", the are not long enough and the skid plate can not be remounted
    - New caster bolts do not fit through the holes, they had to use the old ones and said they were still able to get the rear end aligned
    - I recommend any shop watch youtube videos of the AVID 2. 0 and ATP 2.0 installs first

    Parts left over (minus Springs)
    20190413_104711.jpg
     
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  2. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    To solve the skid plate not remounting, I will look into that later. Maybe some bolt extenders exists, etc.

    Here are the before and after photos: (yah angles don't match - oops)
    20190411_080004.jpg
    20190413_131953.jpg
     
  3. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    80 miles now...
    10 off road this afternoon
    ----Caveat: I am not an expert, sometimes I know enough to be dangerous but am off by a bit due to lack of expertise---
    1) Shutter on hard acceleration from stop or uphill.
    The front shutters a little when hard accelerating from a complete stop or flooring it while already going up a hill. This is in line with the second noticeable change, I believe. It doesn't stutter at all when normally accelerating from my driveway to the flat road. Only notice it on normal acceleration if on a hill, due to a little extra punch you give it to go. Almost feels like front tires are jumping, like I need a traction bar or something now? or the driveline is causing it.. IDK again, not an expert.
    2) Speed timed rhythmic nub hit.
    Sounded like the exhaust rattling against something, but only when the engine is engaging the driveline via going down a steep hill or pushing on the gas to accelerate. I thought at first it was the exhaust, but I think it may be the driveline, which can also cause the front the stutter on acceleration. The angle is different and it may be off balance now.
    IDK really, it is so quiet I could barely hear it while driving in the rain today. Yesterday I couldn't hear it when I rolled down the window to try and see if it was coming from the driver side. And of course you cannot hear it over the raido when at low volume.
    3) Manager said due to the angle and extension, at full flex/extension the strut does come into slight contact with the axel. At that point we both agreed I would be driving so slow that it wouldn't matter if it did and it is very mild. I think this is the most you want to go with Body/Spring lifts. New strut design is needed probably for more cowbell. I am not sure how bigger tires will impact that, I'd have to visualize that one and I am not an expert :D

    At 55-80, drives beautifully no issues
    At 25-40 the noise from bullet #2 is noticeable, past 40 the road noise drowns it out
    overall handling does feel a little like I am on stilts. I think the 1" spacer and 25 offset 16" steel wheels with 225 or 235s will be a good counter to the higher center of gravity. I think the lift makes the 215s just feel even narrower while driving. Just barely noticeable, sometimes I wonder if it just isn't the placebo effect because I am really paying close attention to handling. :)

    Took it up some powerline/logging type roads that are all washed out from the snow finally melting... No weird sounds of concern, handled like a champ without even taking it out of HWY mode. Even with the derpy street/offroad high bread tires it did fantastic over some loose rocks, gravel, small boulder style terrain. Never heard the strut hit the axel in the back from bullet #3, but I think the max flex was 6" on those roads. After the retorque @ 500 miles (we are splitting the difference) I'll take it on some harder stuff.

    So they said about a week or two in, come back and they will retighten, check and do another alignment for free. I thought that was pretty cool, after putting them through the nightmare install. They said they enjoy the new stuff, but the gaps in the instructions and part list with descriptions kinda turned it into a puzzle for 4 techs. I am going to try and get as many miles as I can before that, with limited offroad.

    Rims will be here in 2 weeks from the UK, so then I can do tires.
     
  4. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    dc7acc8335b2fcaff06e-1.png 20190412_163701.jpg
     
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  5. Dgr401

    Dgr401 Active Member

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    Interesting posts. Looking forward to updates. Thanks for posting.
     
  6. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Here is the driveline at the point the skid plate mounts.
    Note the angle at the joint, as well.

    I just need to measure and get the correct threaded extender (like so):
    boltextender.jpg driveline.jpg

    Red arrows point to mounting bolts that come from the underbody on the passenger side.
     
  7. Nerdsmith

    Nerdsmith Member

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    The strut axel issue. Can you send a pic? Teraflex instructions have you cut off a 1/4" piece of the strut for clearance but i think its for tire clearance im not sure. I might be doing the install myself this weekend. Any info is most welcomed.

    Thanks for making this post with extra info everyone is really needing. I am thinking about be doing something similar but from a DIY perspective, but we'll see if i have the time or patience of taking pics of every step in the install. I dont trust shops and labor prices are way too crazy to entertain.
     
  8. zuke

    zuke Member

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    The quarter inch is for axle clearance, I needed it when installing just the Avid 2.5 kit without lift springs.

    I recommend watching Teraflex's install video for the BU, even though it's not a Teraflex kit, there is some good info in it (Including trimming the struts for clearance)..

     
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  9. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Thanks!

    Here is the photo and description:
    axel-strut.jpg
    As the strut moves down, the angle of the axel goes up until the edge of the strut hits the top edge of the axel at full flex...
     
  10. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    On another note, I am 99% sure the sound I am hearing, in bullet #2 above, is engine noise and not something sinister. It was probably there before, but I didn't notice it or the change in position is causing a new vibration related to engine vibrations. I did some more tests and can produce the sound without the vehicle moving the wheels. I was worried about CV and Carrier bearing angles just from general information I've read online, so I think the very faint sound was initially making me wary that the angle was too much. That is still to be determined, but the sound isn't a sign at least.

    Really it is just the slight shudder in the front on hard acceleration. Even a little juice doesn't cause it, just starting on a steep hill where you really punch it. I think that is related to the driveline angle, but again I am not an expert - maybe the CV angles on the wheels can cause that too, they are probably more extreme than the carrier bearing angles on the driveline.

    I guess we will see in 30,000 miles, but really those bearings are not too expensive. I've seen entire drivelines for $200~ from wrecked Renegades on Ebay already :)
     
  11. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    BTW Zuke, That was the back, they did trim the front strut for me per the Avid instructions. I watched the TeraFlex video anyway, very helpful for when I have to fix things later, etc. Thanks for sharing it.

    I did notice this though when taking a picture of the front strut trim for the forum just now..
    CV-Strut.jpg

    A little grease coming out and a crack in the boot on the driver side only.
     
  12. Nerdsmith

    Nerdsmith Member

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    What about with the lift springs? i'll prob still do it just for a piece of mind. Yah i watched teraflexes lift video so many times now, I studied all the lift kits and the pieces are all mostly the same. The difference is if they come with spacers to drop the rear sub frame, or have added front and rear sway bars. The other difference is how they design the rear subframe drop. ATP / teraflex uses stock mount and a spacer to drop it. Avid & daystar uses a extended version of the stock that is welded. All in all they are all doing the same thing. So the instructions should technically the same for all the spacer lifts.

    CV's for our BU's are so cheap ill be keeping a spare front and rear with me for the more serious and adventurous trails.
     
  13. zuke

    zuke Member

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    I ened up with a slight tear in the passenger side outer front myself, Pretty sure I nicked the boot while fighting it back together the first time, and found it on the first retorque check I did the week after the install. The boot is pretty cheap even from the dealership, so I just put a new one on the axle..
     
  14. zuke

    zuke Member

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    Yeah, You'll want to trim the strut with the lift springs.. You're still pushing the axle closer to the strut in both scenarios, so the potential for them to hit is increased, and as you say, the added peace of mind won't hurt!

    Yup, I'm planning on carrying spare complete axle shafts when wheeling, as you noted, they aren't very pricey.
     
  15. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Are the replacement boots the ones that you wrap and glue a seam together or do I need to remove the wheel, etc. to replace it?

    I haven't had to work on CV joints since 199x and figure with all the technology in synthetic materials and bonding agents over the last 20+ years we wouldn't need to go through all that trouble to replace a boot anymore.. I was thinking there may be a patch, sealer or even a stronger material for boots these days..
     
  16. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Going in next week for retorque, checkup and alignment check.
    Waiting for things to finish settling in before I measure the clearance. It seemed way to high when I got home @ around 15".

    16" rims are shipping now, should be here next week. (TF4408's)

    Now I need to finalize the tires I want, keep going back and forth between sizes, but since it will be a close fit I want things to fully settle down before measuring precisely to see how big I can fit. I think 225/75R16 is a safe bet, but would prefer 85 ratio if possible. I am not going to go over 235mm wide though, I am in a lot of mud and loose rocks and hardly ever see sand or deep gravel. I don't think I am heavy enough to push down for traction on wider tires over 255, etc.
     
  17. zuke

    zuke Member

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    I've used the glue-type boots before with decent success, But I couldn't find one specifically listed as working with the Renegade or any of the 500's the Renegade shares a platform with, And as close as the boot rides to the strut, I figured I didn't want one that was any bulkier than stock, So I went with an OEM boot.

    If it's more of a small pin hole than a tear, and you haven't lost a lot of grease yet, you could probably get away with using some tire patch glue on it as a temprorary repair, probably last the life of the CV Joint, since the way we are lifting them is probably significantly shortening their life anyway :)
     
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  18. zuke

    zuke Member

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    I went with a 235/65R17, (Toyo open country ATII) which is also a 29" tire, but a tad wider then the ones you're looking at.. On 1.5 Spacers, I had to trim the pinch seam.
     
  19. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    I will end up around 1.5" from stock offset, so about the same as your spacer. I may as well start on the pinch seem mod before I get the wheels.
     
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  20. Dewatto

    Dewatto Member

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    Well it was that time already and the shop took a look today at the alignment and lift kit (retorque) and everything was good.

    I was underneath yesterday and had 12 to 13" of ground clearance, depending on where I measured (muffler versus skid plate). It is nice not needing to jack up the rig and just slide under on a roller board with plenty of room to move around! :)

    Wheels arrived today and I am still on the fence on which tire to put on. Would love to get a 30" on there for the extra 1" of lift and the look, but not many 30" options in the narrower tires:

    806mm = 31.73 Inches - 235/85R16 13%
    774mm - 30.47 Inches - 245/75R16 9%
    772mm = 30.39 Inches - 215/85R16 9%
    759mm = 29.88 Inches - 235/75R16 7% (not many good choices)
    744mm = 29.29 Inches - 225/75R16 5%
    735mm = 28.93 Inches - 235/70R16 3%
    711mm - 27.99 Inches - 215/65R17 0% - Baseline Stock Tire
     

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